The logic of Donald Trump’s podcast strategy

Register Media todayCJR’s daily newsletter.

Sitting on a plush sofa next to a pack of assorted Happy Dad hard seltzer drinks, Donald Trump was having a great time. It was mid-October and Trump was on set Six feet undera wrestling podcast hosted by Mark William Calaway, better known as former WWE star Undertaker – while laughing awkwardly at a joke about the former wrestler forgetting how many wives he had.

“That’s the Donald Trump people can’t see” – Undertaker he said. “I know you have a tough guy personality and bravado, but this is good, this is fun…. You made politics fun again.

Trump’s emergence in Six feet under– which currently has nearly 700,000 views on YouTube alone – was his 100th podcast interview, according to Podchaser Databasealmost all in the last two years. This is part of an unconventional media strategy that, according to analysts, is surprisingly well thought out.

According to Gabriel Soto, senior director of research at Edison Research, a company that has been tracking podcast data since 2006, podcast audience numbers have changed since the pandemic began. While the audience is still disproportionately predominant among college-educated and income earners—urban-dwelling liberal types—recent years have seen an influx of podcasts for listeners without college degrees, and especially younger men. More importantly, Edison research conducted over the summer found that 19 percent of regular podcast listeners are undecided voters.

This is the obvious target of the Trump campaign, which focuses on undecided and politically disengaged young men as key demographic group in his efforts to defeat Vice President Kamala Harris.

“It’s very simple: These are people who could potentially vote and are not regulars who watch TV news or even Fox News, but they listen to these emerging podcasts,” said a Republican strategist close to the Trump campaign in a speech under the condition of anonymity to discuss behind-the-scenes strategy. “When you’re on primetime TV, you’re limited to what you can say and you have to brush up on what you’re saying. But when it comes to the podcast, it’s often a more casual environment where you can express your favorite pizza and gain a closer connection with Americans.”

This may be especially true of podcasts and digital programming, which have attracted Trump’s recent attention as his campaign has made every effort to reach younger men, who vote inconsistently, if at all. These low-propensity voters, as they are called, tend not to read much traditional news; however, they watch the exact shows that Trump has recently appeared on: Andrew Schulz’s comedy podcast Glaring; The The Joe Rogan experience; and about sports Business with the boyshosted by former NFL players Will Compton and Taylor Lewan. Interviews tend to be humorous and casual and rarely focus on the nuances of politics. And the audience – not to mention the hosts – is like that disproportionately male. (Rogan’s show, America’s most popular podcast, has 17.3 million subscribers, 80 percent of whom are men, According to to Edison.)

Kamala Harris has adopted a similar strategy in recent weeks, appearing on the typically apolitical podcasts of former NFL player Shannon Sharpe and sociologist Brené Brown. Harris’ recent performance in Call her, daddyAlex Cooper’s pop culture and sexuality podcast drew political press attention to Harris’ defiant response to Republican attacks on childless women (“it’s not the 1950s anymore”), but its real impact may have been on a significant portion of the public’s undecided or politically disengaged audience. (Call her, daddy It started as a podcast hosted by the brothers, the conservative-leaning Barstool Sports empire. Republicans make up 24 percent of her audience, and independents make up another 20 percent, according to Edison.)

“It’s a very targeted method of reaching these people,” said an admitted Republican strategist Call her, daddy showing up was a “smart move.”

“It’s almost like a family,” Soto said of the community formed around these programs. “You can launch your favorite application, your favorite program and go directly to the topics that are important to you. And this intimacy provides a quick and easy way to connect with the host.”

Listeners of these podcasts learn things about Trump they may not have known before. In comedian Theo Von’s program entitled Last weekend– which ranks ninth in the overall rankings and fifth among men aged eighteen to thirty-five – the former president spoke about his late brother Fred Jr.’s fight. with alcoholism. (When a group of Canadian-American pranksters known as the Nelk Boys – 8.2 million YouTube subscribers –followed Trump on the plane where the campaign was taking place, they discovered that no alcohol was available on board.) Next Business with the boysTrump talked about his experiences playing youth soccer.

The unpredictable nature of these interviews, as well as the hosts themselves, also means that Trump’s conversations carry some risk. Schulz, host Glaringlaughed loudly at Trump when he described himself as a “mostly truthful person” – a reaction he’s unlikely to get in the staid environment of network television. And during his three-hour appearance last week The The Joe Rogan experiencethe otherwise affable host seemed occasionally frustrated as Trump gave long, rambling answers to specific questions. “Your weave is getting wider,” Rogan said at one point, a reference to the term Trump invented it describe his convoluted answers – just as Trump tried to answer the question about tariffs. (Trump also praised Robert E. Lee and said he wanted to be a “whale psychiatrist.”)

But in most cases, the performances probably worked for the intended audience.

“Perhaps this has a legitimizing effect for many undecided or apolitical voters,” said Abraham Josephine Reisman, author of the 2023 book. Ringmaster: Vince McMahon and the Destruction of Americaabout Trump’s appearance on the day Six feet under. “It’s not like anyone is going to be introduced to Donald Trump through The Undertaker’s podcast. But one thing that might bring them together is the fact that Trump is a wrestling fan just like them, as you can hear on this podcast.”

Jake Lahut is a campaign reporter based in New York. He covered the 2024 New Hampshire GOP primary Everyday Beast and is the author of the Trail Mix newsletter. Previously he worked in Business expert and Keene Sentinel.